Nuanced Conversations: reflecting on Such a Gorgeous Paradox
I love podcasts. Over the last couple of years or so, they have become my favourite source of information for pretty much everything I’m interested in: therapy, social justice, activism, politics, music, culture, relationships, etc. In fact, according to Spotify, I spent 316 hours listening to podcasts in 2020. 316 hours, that’s right! In many ways, podcasts have been getting me through the pandemic. And ultimately, I’ve learned to discern what I like and don’t like about a podcast, about a host, about ways to introduce guests, about consistency, about research, and about being present. I’m the person in my social group to whom people ask for podcast recommendations. And because of that, a few friends over the years have suggested that I do one. I’ve had countless ideas about what kind of podcast I would like to host and produce. Ultimately, as the first few months of the pandemic began to make their mark in my life, it became clearer and clearer that I wanted to talk about therapy, wellbeing, identity, and life journeys.
I needed a bit of a push and applying for funding from the British Association of Dramatherapists was my way of holding myself accountable to something. The Bruce Howard Bayley Fund was perfect for what I wanted to explore, discuss, and give space to, and so the idea of dedicating the entire first season to Dramatherapy was a no brainer. The purpose of the fund is to encourage and support the expansion and development of dramatherapy practice in non-traditional areas, venues, issues, client populations, settings and models of practice. Thinking of guests was also quite easy. One of my favourite roles is being able to co-lead the Inclusion & Visibility Subcommittee for the association, and I’m genuinely happy for what I’ve been able to help build in the current structure of the subcommittee. We are more engaged than ever, with a great deal of participants reflecting, working, and focusing together on a myriad of projects. We have created a beautiful community in our little corner of the world. In many ways, I wanted to share that with the world, hence why the majority of the guests are also a part of the subcommittee. The conversations you hear in the podcast are simply a continuation of the conversations we have been holding together for months and years. They are focused and long-winded, they are serious and joyful, they are reflective and active. They are always nuanced, caring, and passionate. They are life itself, as “life is such a good conversation” (Paul Monette in Thompson 1994).
As I mention in the first episode of Such a Gorgeous Paradox, I like the long format and what it enables: time and space for conversations which allow for the nuance that is so seriously lacking in our current world. I did learn with each episode that there is never enough time to discuss all the things I’d like to discuss, though. In that sense, each interview and conversation represent a step, rather than a staircase. I hope that each episode will inspire, resonate, and make listeners pause and reflect on their own experiences. My main intention was to hold space and time for lived experiences which often don’t get given a nuanced platform. I wanted to make my guests feel safe, and I wanted to honour their gorgeous hearts and minds.
I’ve come to prefer the idea of surprise to the idea of lesson, as it sparks my sense of curiosity, rather than my very analytical mind. Here are some of them:
I initially envisaged that the episodes would be a conversation between two different people who were also dramatherapists. With each episode, I noticed myself becoming more and more of an interviewer, and the differences between conversation and interview style became quite apparent to me. Some of them may feel more like a conversation than others, which depended on the guest, and my own state of mind on the day of each recording. But as I recorded the series, I became very aware that this space was for the guests, not me. And this felt really special, and natural to me. I felt honoured to hold the space and make it about the guest, without sharing too much about myself in the process.
I have always supported ideas, policies, and practices relating to affirmative action, but I’d never been able to really put it into practice. With this series, I was very adamant that I wanted to shift the focus away from where it usually is, and place it on experiences and voices which aren’t often at the centre. I wanted to hold conversations about race, ethnicity, faith, belief, disability, and queerness. And so, I reached out to each person individually, and explained what I wanted to do. Each guest represents a specific experience within a much wider experience. No group of people is a monolith, and at the same time, the personal is political, and the individual is universal. I believe each interview holds that tension quite well.
My privilege was never more apparent than when guests requested certain parts of their interviews to be edited out, and I found myself wondering why. One of my guests very kindly reminded me that, unfortunately, many of my guests stood to lose a lot more than I did in terms of future professional prospects, based solely on identity. It is often the reality of more marginalised identities that when visibility increases, so does risk of harmful consequences.
It was wonderful to notice and observe skills that I thought I only used as a therapist to come through in a different context. Perhaps there is something universal about the act of holding space for others, whether that is in therapy or in an interview. I’d just never thought about that before.
I always like to experience the other side, and so the bonus episode of the series was about putting myself in the shoes of my guests. I became even more grateful for their time, presence, and grace in their contributions to the podcast. Words can’t quite describe how thankful I feel. Thank you Kairo, Georgina, Hayley, Sareena, Simon, Lucy, Mandy, Eshmit, Samantha, and Bruce.
A massive thank you to the British Association of Dramatherapists for supporting this project – hopefully it will inspire others to further expand the presence of our profession in the world and the ways in which we can do so.
Finally, thank you to everyone who has listened, supported, shared, and followed the podcast series for the last few months. If you haven’t started, no worries! It will be there whenever you’re ready. More episodes will come, but the focus will move away from dramatherapy in future seasons.
You can find Such a Gorgeous Paradox on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and any other platforms which host podcasts. You may also find it here.
Gorgeous wishes,
Ryan
Reference:
Thompson, Mark (1994), Gay Soul: Finding the Heart of Gay Spirit and Nature, HarperCollins